Foul language, swear words, should we translate this or simply refuse?

[vicente]

I am in total agreement with Sandra on this.

In regard to the poster who requested translation of cacho cabron, I am certain that he/she did not know the words. Danecao had recently made a request to translate a scene from a movie script. I saw that his request contained a "love" scene and PMd him/her and did the translation by PM. He/she thought a word being used meant "following" when it actually was a slang word for fornicate. Based on his/her response I believe that he/she was not translating a pornographic movie script but one with graphic s*x scenes.

If, however, danecao did know in advance the scenes were pornographic then it was improper to bring them to us for translation.
I, personally, am not disturbed by graphic language. I am all grown up, and after all they are just words. I have heard it all in my lifetime but I do not approve of gratuitous filthy language and I understand why others do not like it. I avoid places and situations where I think I might be exposed to things I don't want to see or hear.

I am reminded of the thread on Brokeback Mountain in which a poster said he walked out of the movie he found disturbing. That is the solution in my opinion. We should try to control unnecessary foul language but if you happen to enter a thread and see something that disturbs you...walk out.

In any case, I chose to translate for danecao but I did it by PM in order to keep the language out of the forum, which was fine because I understood and could translate everything; however; if I not been able to do the translation myself and needed help from other members I could not have done it by PM...maybe better to say it would not have been worth the effort...to involve other members by PM.

So, I think whenever possible, if a member chooses to translate something he/she knows to be "obscene" in content then there is the option of doing it by PM.

The drawback, or negative side to this is that no one else sees the translation and you are "on your own". In the case of the cacho carbón thread I learned a few things and I think that is valuable. That is my reason for being a member of this forum...to learn...and learn everything I can...and in exchange, to be of help when I can.

[lauracipolla]

I think we're all wasting too much time on this issue... if anybody's purpose was to make trouble, well... they got it. It's been said and I subscribe to it: we're adults, and as such, we have the right to choose what to read, what to write, when to stop reading, when to reply, what to translate (us, translators) (and it can be done privately, as suggested) and what not to, what movie to stop seeing when we're offended... I honestly don't care for any censorship: I already had enough in my life. I can decide for myself, thank you. And I have the freedom to give my opinion, and I'm also thankful for that.

I suggest we all deal with better and more interesting subjects than this...!
My regards to everyone,
Laura

[kellymellars]

This issue came up on this thread:
what does "Cacho carbon" mean?
Somebody asked to translate "cacho cabrón" and Kelly said this:

I agree with her in general terms, concerning explicit pornographic material. In any case, I suppose if you are a pro, it's not so easy to decide.
this is my opinion:

What do you think? Should we translate any kind of material? What about swear words? In Spain this is part of the culture. EVERYBODY swears!
What about posts like the above, do they offend you?

It is fascinating to learn about different cultures. The language is just the first barrier, the culture has to go hand in hand. EVERYBODY swears in Spain. It is a term of endearment??? Wow! One learns something new everyday! I can see why everybody gets so wound up about the language issue.
In the US -and I know what vicente said about his Texas. But in most of the US there is a certain amount of decorum. If you use swear words in public you can get into a great deal of trouble. In some instances the owners of establishments could call the police.

In the US the government fights for the rights of the citizens. Most of the people find swearing in public places unacceptable, and an insult -rather than endearing. -I am saying most as I don't want to ignore vicente's experience in Texas.

Here goes a website you might want to check out. It would give you an idea of how the government view things in the US. It's from the FCC, the Federal Communications Commission. I have also included an exerpt from the website. - Kelly

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/obscene.html

FCC; Federal communications commission

Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau


Obscene, Indecent, and Profane Broadcasts
Consumer Facts

It’s Against the Law

It is a violation of federal law to air obscene programming at any time. It is also a violation of federal law to air indecent programming or profane language during certain hours. Congress has given the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) the responsibility for administratively enforcing these laws. The FCC may revoke a station license, impose a monetary forfeiture, or issue a warning if a station airs obscene, indecent, or profane material.
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Profane Broadcast Restrictions

The FCC has defined profanity as “including language so grossly offensive to members of the public who actually hear it as to amount to a nuisance.”

Like indecency, profane speech is prohibited on broadcast radio and television between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m.
__________________

[sarab]

As true as that may be Kelly, the reality is that people still do swear, and people that swear still need their documents translated. It is not the job of the translator to censor the text, they must present the text as accurately as possible in the target language. People will always be offended for one reason or another. You do bring up an interesting point though about the cultural differences of swearing, although even in the U.S. it does vary quite a bit depending on the region or type of institution.

[vicente]

In the US -and I know what vicente said about his Texas. But in most of the US there is a certain amount of decorum. If you use swear words in public you can get into a great deal of trouble. In some instances the owners of establishments could call the police.

In the US the government fights for the rights of the citizens. Most of the people find swearing in public places unacceptable, and an insult -rather than endearing. -I am saying most as I don't want to ignore vicente's experience in Texas.

Kelly:

I did not intend to continue with this but since you mentioned me specifically I must correct what appears to be an erroneous assumption. I am not a native Texan.

I live in Texas at present but I have lived in New York, Baltimore, Newark, Washington, D.C., Miami, California, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Puerto Rico and New Mexico and have travelled throughout the U.S. all my life.

Texas is not a separate country and the big cities of Texas are cosmopolitan and are little different than the big cities of any other state. This is 2008. Many of the residents are from other parts of the country as well as from other countries, such as yourself.

Few people "get into a lot of trouble" for using "swear words" in public unless they start a fight.

"Swearing in public" and "obscenity" on television is as common in New York and Miami as it is it Denver and Dallas. It doesn't matter where you live.

And while there may be laws on the books about "obscenity" they are practically un-enforceable due to the decades-old debate about the definition of obscenity.

I agree with Laura. We are wasting a lot of time on this discussion of censorship. It no longer has anything to do with translations.

[mem286]

I agree with Laura. We are wasting a lot of time on this discussion of censorship. It no longer has anything to do with translations.

De acuerdo Vicente... y ni América Latina ni Argentina, ni España son islas aisladas en el mundo, ni tampoco es "cool" decir estas palabras, como kellymellars mencionó en otro hilo... (me resulta ofensivo ese comentario) Cada uno piensa lo que piensa y creo que la mayoría pensamos lo mismo...

También opino que esto no da para más, amigos...

[kellymellars]

As true as that may be Kelly, the reality is that people still do swear, and people that swear still need their documents translated. It is not the job of the translator to censor the text, they must present the text as accurately as possible in the target language. People will always be offended for one reason or another. You do bring up an interesting point though about the cultural differences of swearing, although even in the U.S. it does vary quite a bit depending on the region or type of institution.

sarab, You are right, just look at the huge difference between my experiences and vicente's. Hard to imagine that we are even talking about the same country.
But don't get me wrong, I am not telling you what you should do. If you want to translate a document for whatever reason, I can't tell you not to do it. Especially after I have learnt that swear words are OK, and even (according to Exxcentrica) terms of endearment in Spain and Latin America. What I am saying now, and I believe Exxcentrica has already addressed it somewhere in this thread, is that we should have a sort of warning system in place to let people know that viewer discretion is required, because the thread could be offensive -by language, content, etc.
BTW, Your English is very good. It is refreshing to read a well written comment. I remember a member replying to one of my messages. I was too polite, but wanted to say "if I could only understand what you are trying to say" I did not want to hurt her feelings. Though she is not shy about attacking me quite frequently.

[kellymellars]

[COLOR=navy]
Kelly:
I did not intend to continue with this but since you mentioned me specifically I must correct what appears to be an erroneous assumption. I am not a native Texan.[/COLOR
I live in Texas at present but I have lived in New York, Baltimore, Newark, Washington, D.C., Miami, California, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Puerto Rico and New Mexico and have travelled throughout the U.S. all my life.
Texas is not a separate country and the big cities of Texas are cosmopolitan and are little different than the big cities of any other state. This is 2008. Many of the residents are from other parts of the country as well as from other countries, such as yourself.
Few people "get into a lot of trouble" for using "swear words" in public unless they start a fight.
"Swearing in public" and "obscenity" on television is as common in New York and Miami as it is it Denver and Dallas. It doesn't matter where you live.
And while there may be laws on the books about "obscenity" they are practically un-enforceable due to the decades-old debate about the definition of obscenity.
I agree with Laura. We are wasting a lot of time on this discussion of censorship. It no longer has anything to do with translations.

vicente, again! my most faithful heckler!
Two things,
First, I don't know if you are aware that it wasn't me who started this thread, and
Second, and repeating your own advise. If you don't like what you are reading "Leave the thread!". I believe that's what you said vicente, isn't it?
There are plenty of other threads where you can put your translating skills into practice

[kellymellars]

De acuerdo Vicente... y ni América Latina ni Argentina, ni España son islas aisladas en el mundo, ni tampoco es "cool" decir estas palabras, como kellymellars mencionó en otro hilo... (me resulta ofensivo ese comentario) Cada uno piensa lo que piensa y creo que la mayoría pensamos lo mismo...



También opino que esto no da para más, amigos...

Hi Kelly, I generally agree with you on posts with foul language or pornographic sentences or such, but this particular wording can be something VERY friendly in Spain!!

I believe in Mexico too. So we are not talking about pornographic material or bad taste here. In Spain, swearing is a part of the culture. Even my mother in law swears!
)

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T
What do you think? Should we translate any kind of material? What about swear words? In Spain this is part of the culture. EVERYBODY swears!

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[QUOTE=CarlosRoberto]Hi, Kelly: ...
... Finally, who can qualify the quality of language in an international forum, full of exchanges between people from very different countries? I could say that "culo" is an obscene word, but Exx and millions of spaniards would say it's as innocent a word as "nalgas". And the same would happen the other way round. The very words of the FCC can be subject to interpretation: what does "obscene programming" or "profane language" exactly mean? These criteria have always been as subjective as the period in which they are expressed. During the fifties they meant something very different than during the sixties, or the seventies.
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[exxcéntrica]

I would publicly like to apologize to the friends who I sent a message to trying to straighten out what I thought was an error or the system, believe it or not. I had no idea how the point system worked, Now I do.

I am extremely sorry.

I do believe some kind of flagging's system would not be a bad idea. Some forums suggest to members to post "might offend" in the thread title, as the members are normally aware that the language might not be "proper" even though, as we have seen here , this very much depends on the country.

But I would like to express my disapproval for these kind of posts.

vicente, again! my most faithful heckler!
If you don't like what you are reading "Leave the thread!". I believe that's what you said vicente, isn't it?
There are plenty of other threads where you can put your translating skills into practice

These are personal attacks and I think it is shameful to behave like this. This is outrageous and I am really sorry to have ever tried to understand this particular poster.

I apologize.